This is going to be fun

"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel) 11/30/2016 at 15:58 • Filed to: None

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This is 76HP and 114lb ft of torque at 3500 rpm and 90V. As you can see it’s pretty darn small for the power output.

Mercedes Streeter > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:03

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Is...is that a motor that can be used in an electric car?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:04

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One at each wheel plz

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Mercedes Streeter 11/30/2016 at 16:06

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It is. This is the powerplant for my school’s 7th generation Formula Hybrid race car we are designing for a competition in the spring. This is about twice the power of the motor in the 6th gen car.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:08

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Formula SAE? What would it do at 120v?

Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:13

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I shall call it...the TurbochargedSquirrelcage

Mercedes Streeter > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:15

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Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh!! I had no idea electric car motors were actually that small. :D

Technically, would it be possible to put one of those at each wheel and have an AWD monster?

Tareim - V8 powered > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:16

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if that’s an electric motor why isn’t the power @1 rpm or w/e low down, I thought power was instant not at like 3.5krpm

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:18

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I’d like to put one of those in my child’s power wheels.....

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Flyboy is FAA certified insane 11/30/2016 at 16:21

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Formula Hybrid. Not quite sure what you would get at 120 (specs only list for 90V). We won’t know what our true power output is until we dyno it with the 110V pack in the car. I anticipate going from 90-120V you will see about a 20% gain if you have the current capacity to drive it. It also really depends on how much your cell voltages sag under the load of the motor. Our 110V max nominal pack will probably be outputting ~100V because of the 500-600A load on it.

The Lurktastic Opponaught > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:26

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Your lab has better warning signs than my lab.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:27

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Oh cool. I think my school did that for a while and just went back to the regular motorcycle motor

Leon711 > Mercedes Streeter 11/30/2016 at 16:27

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It would, you could have torque vectoring too. There will be a lot of unsprung weight though, making the car feel less responsive.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Leon711 11/30/2016 at 16:33

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You could house them on the chassis and that would solve that...

Future next gen S2000 owner > Leon711 11/30/2016 at 16:35

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You could run a driveshaft and reduce the unsprung weight.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Tareim - V8 powered 11/30/2016 at 16:37

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Most motors have PWM controllers that will limit the voltage to the motor so the power is more controllable. It probably gets the full juice at that RPM.

Leon711 > Future next gen S2000 owner 11/30/2016 at 16:39

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You could indeed, you will lose a tiny smidge of power through the shaft though.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:39

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Nova uses the same type of motors(Agni motors), only we were limited to 45V by our rules, and hence had a way lower power output.

What is this going to be used in? Also is this a testing setup, or are you going to use the 2 motors in series?

shop-teacher > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 16:40

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That is an impressive amount of power from such a small package.

Leon711 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 11/30/2016 at 16:47

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You could, we must consider the losses through whatever joint you would use to transmit power, be it a constant velocity joint or a universal joint.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 11/30/2016 at 16:49

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The interesting bit is this is actually an assembly of 2 motors which are mechanically coupled but electrically separate (think of it like 2 gas engines which share a crank but have separate throttles and fuel systems). You could split them apart and have 2 motors which are a perfect form factor for hub mounting.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Tareim - V8 powered 11/30/2016 at 17:02

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They do but you do not utilize that in the real world. You tend to break stuff by suddenly applying that much torque. So instead you gradually build the power up to prevent that and aid driveability. The 76HP is the peak power number (which happens to be at 3500 rpm) and 114ft lbs is the torque at that same point. The interesting thing about electric motors is that the more you load them the more power they make (as long as your supply can keep up and only up to a certain point). Sitting on the table there its not making any power at all. If you want to determine the true max torque output you have to stall the motor.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 11/30/2016 at 17:04

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This is actually a pair of mechanically coupled (but electrically separate) Lynch Pancake motors. This is going into my schools 7th generation Formula Hybrid race car. The plan is to have a kind of virtual 2 speed transmission by being to switch the motors between a series and parallel setup as well as simply being able to turn 1 off for improved endurance when you don’t need the power. As it sits there the 2 motors are electrically independent and only the left motor has a supply. This was just a quick bench test to ensure they were functional.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Leon711 11/30/2016 at 17:14

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Mount them inboard and have a shaft like a normal car?

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 17:17

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Sounds like an interesting setup! Keep us posted on the progress.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Leon711 11/30/2016 at 17:17

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The neat thing about these is that it is actually a pair of mechanically coupled but electrically independent motors. You could easily separate them and have 2 motors which are the perfect form factor for a hub motor setup. And since they are designed to be able to be coupled like they are here you could feed something such as a gas engine in a hybrid setup through the motors mounted to the hubs.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Leon711 11/30/2016 at 17:18

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I think the benefits in ride and motor longevity would be worth it.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 11/30/2016 at 17:21

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Will do. We are hoping to begin fabrication at the start of the spring semester.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > The Lurktastic Opponaught 11/30/2016 at 18:27

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That’s actually a rules thing. You stick that to the car when you have the battery pack open so people know not to touch it unless they know what they are doing. 100-300V DC will mess you up good. We have a specific bag of tools which are required for HV (>30V DC) work. They are your standard screwdrivers and wrenches but they are designed with minimal metal exposed (to reduce your ability to create short circuits) and a specialized rubber coating rated to withstand 10kV DC. We also wear gloves rated to 25kV when working in the pack and work on top of that big orange mat you see on the table there. All the high voltage stuff is bright orange and at competition you have to designate specific people who are the only ones allowed to do HV work. Electricity is really a case where you are perfectly safe- if you know what you are doing which is why a lot of the precautions tend to be limiting who is actually allowed to work.

Back in the early years of the club a school faculty member attempted to dispose of one of our old packs during a break while no students were on campus. He ended up short circuiting it and burning himself pretty bad. Since that day AERO club members are the only people on campus allowed to work with fixed (i.e. not a lab supply which can easily be turned off and don’t store energy) DC sources in excess of 30V. It’s interesting being an undergrad and being one of about 5 people (within the club we limit HV work to EEs) qualified to deal with battery situations on campus.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback 11/30/2016 at 18:31

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The scary thing is you could probably get it to fit under the body. It won’t work at 12V though.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > shop-teacher 11/30/2016 at 18:57

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It really is quite impressive. We haven’t put it on a scale yet but it only weighs about 40 lbs.

shop-teacher > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 19:03

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How much does something like that cost?

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > shop-teacher 11/30/2016 at 19:08

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This was $3,000 shipped from the UK to Vermont.

shop-teacher > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/30/2016 at 19:10

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Daaaaaaaang.

Sounds about right, but still ... daaaaaaaaang.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > shop-teacher 11/30/2016 at 19:26

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It’s pretty much par for the course for the more powerful motors. Though this one has the benefit of being able to be separated into 2 less powerful motors if you want. If it goes well this year we will probably get 4+ years of use out of it.

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 12/01/2016 at 08:05

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90v seems plausible. Where there is a will......

Leon711 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 12/01/2016 at 12:53

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There are certain arguments for hub motors, Ride and longevity are not for hub motors. Does wonders for packaging though.

Dusty Ventures > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 12/02/2016 at 14:23

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I wonder if these would be legal in the Power Wheels Racing League

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Dusty Ventures 12/02/2016 at 15:06

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It’s fair game if it fits right?

Dusty Ventures > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 12/02/2016 at 17:08

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TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Dusty Ventures 12/02/2016 at 18:28

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So this gets a bit interesting. The 48V limit prevents you from running these at their max voltage. These are two motors which are mechanically coupled but electrically separate. The 76HP number is for parallel at 90 V and 400A each (800A total). When we put them into series we get a less powerful but much more efficient motor at 45V and 400A total (in series both motors have the same current and in a theoretical ideal they each see half the voltage). In series we will see about 38HP and 57ft/lbs of torque but will be twice as efficient.

As for the powerwheels you can get around the 48V limit by wiring the motors in parallel. Each motor will get 48V (slightly more than when in series on a 90V pack) and you will get an output of about 40HP. HOWEVER since they are in parallel you will be able to push 400A to both motors meaning that if your batteries and motor controller are capable of 800A you will be able to reach the 114ft/lb of torque number unlike the series implementation.

So yes this thing can be rules compliant and output ~40HP and 114ft/lbs of torque in a freaking powerwheels.

Dusty Ventures > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 12/02/2016 at 18:59

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In that case I guess the next question is what’s the price tag on those. Like LeMons the Power Wheels series has a price cap

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Dusty Ventures 12/02/2016 at 19:03

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$3000.

Dusty Ventures > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 12/02/2016 at 19:12

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...maybe I can find a used one with a few seasons on it